CC image courtesy of Flickr, Paul Jerry.
The following post is written by Gary. The author’s name has been changed to ensure anonymity. “Gary” is a pseudonym. Also by Gary on HA: “The Deep Drone of Unseen Cicadas” and “Hurts Me More Than You: Gary’s Story”.
To begin with I would like to state several things.
1. I do not know the Naugler family. I have never met them. All of the following observations are based solely from the information this family posted, publicly, on their blog and public Facebook page.
2. Much of the “information” being spread about the internet in regards to this family is clearly, factually incorrect. This can be seen through simple observation of posts on the family’s public Facebook page and blog.
Most of the information people are referencing is based only from the first few photos and/or posts on the family’s blog and Facebook page. For instance, the cover photo used in much of media coverage is clearly (based off the age of the youngest child featured) taken as much as two years ago. Another instance would be the “cabin”. When the family first moved to the property they did, indeed, have a cabin of sorts. In reality it was a small prefab home bought on credit. But this cabin was later returned. Where it stood is now a concrete slab, bare and seen in photos as a resting place for a heard of goats.
Since then the family has lived in a series of small open air shacks and tents — none of which even have 4 walls, windows, a solid floor, or a working door. This as well is clearly visible from photos publicly posted.
3. The dates of the photos posted on the family’s pages do not necessarily correlate to the date the photos were actually taken. Once again, this can be established by noting certain structures (or lack there of) on the land, the ages of the youngest children, and the time of year the photos were taken. Thus, no reliable timeline of any kind as to the health and welfare of the children, at the time they were taken, can be established by the online information. The most recent group photo I could find (once again based from the ages of the children) might have been taken as long ago as last fall.
4. The situation at the homestead, based off the photos and posts available, seems to be getting worse. There are several reasons for this, and they have to do with the effects of animals (goats, chickens, dogs, etc.) and human habitation on a spot of land. In the beginning the pond appears to be a real pond (turtles and fish are pictured), by the (apparently) latest photos, the pond has turned into a filthy mud pit devoid of most life. This is the natural consequence of animal dung running off the surrounding landscape with the rain and melting snow, the traffic of people, animals, etc.
This same trend can be seen in the yards and areas surrounding the shack. At first the dirt is held down by plant roots, but as the small trees were killed by the goats or chopped down to form fences, the dirt turned to mud. This mud gets mixed with the animal dung (goat, chicken and dog) and gets tracked by the bare feet of the children over every surface of the homestead. This state of affairs is clearly visible in the photos.
With this comes water from rain running straight off into the pond, carrying with it animal dung and any and all other forms of filth, from oil and gasoline from the generator, to cooking and food waste. This means that any photos taken at the beginning of this homestead experience simply can not be relied on to show the true living conditions of the current day.
We do see some photos of a shallow ditch covered by a few muddy boards, that was dug in an attempt to keep this filthy rain run off from flooding the shack.
5. These conditions will continue to get worse unless there are major and lasting changes to every aspect of the family’s food preparation area, sleeping area etc. The mud and run-off water will get worse as the hillside continues to break apart. The pond will become even worse of a health hazard as it fills with more animal dung and garbage. The structures, such as they are, will begin to mold and rot from the ground up. (This is, in fact, based off photos. It is already taking place).
6. I am not going to talk here about the family’s religious beliefs, their choice to un-school or homeschool their children, their practice of not providing their children with immunizations, Social Security numbers, or birth certificates.
All those issues are, in my opinion, secondary to the very real and pressing issues of the health and physical safety of these ten children.
Despite all the media coverage to the contrary, that does seem, based off all information available, to be the actual and factual reason the children were taken from their parents.
So without further ado, here is a bit of what is going on.
*****
My family is sick.. We never get sick, its been nearly 3 years since we have been sick…But I think the children ate some bad food. ~lesson learned, ask mom before you eat something.. 7 of 10 children down. Olivia, being the nurturing one that she is, is taking care of everyone with me. She is bringing water to them, making sure they are all cared for..She has been on top of it not missing a step even when I stopped to feed the baby. Quinten made up everyone’s spot.. .. ,,,,at least they like to sleep outside. ( true campers!) But no one is up for roasted marshmallows
-Direct quote from the “Blessed Little Homestead” Facebook page, posted on July 24th 2014
In the photo (which got over 20 likes) we see multiple children, dressed in dirty shorts, sprawled on mounds of blankets in the dirt around an open air fire pit.
They are obviously sick:
Food poisoning. Or was it? They, “the children” had eaten some unidentified “food” with out asking their mother if it was safe to eat.
Was it some of the wild mushrooms featured in many photos on the “Blessed Little Homestead” (BLH) Facebook page?
Was it rotting left over food sitting in any number of the unwashed and grime incrusted Tupperware and plastic containers lying scattered around the open air “kitchen” (really a stack of bricks filled with open flame and topped with rusty and filth incrusted wire racks)?
Was it Salmonella?
Let us see if this description matches some of the living environments seen on the BLH Facebook page.
Food: Contaminated eggs, poultry, meat, unpasteurized milk or juice, cheese, contaminated raw fruits and vegetables (alfalfa sprouts, melons), spices, and nuts
Animals and their environment: Particularly reptiles (snakes, turtles, lizards), amphibians (frogs), birds (baby chicks) and pet food and treats.
There are picture after picture after picture of small children, covered in grime, holding and handling:
- Snakes.
- Toads.
- Baby Chicks.
- Turtles.
- The list goes on and on.
There is photo after photo of a “homestead” coated inches deep in mud, and with up to eight goats roughly a dozen chickens, two cats and seven dogs running loose around and in the shacks that serve as “home” for this family, one can know, with absolute mathematical certainty, that this “mud” that coats everything form the children to the floors and walls in a persistent layer of grime, is at least in a significant part, animal dung.
So, was it Salmonella?
Was it E-Coli?
Was it poison mushrooms cooked up by an unknowing child in a grimy pot over an open fire? (The kids, after all, are shown doing the “cooking”, and the mother brags in several posts about how “the kids do almost all the cooking for the family.”
We don’t know. The mother doesn’t know either. And that’s a big problem when it comes to the health and safety of the 10 children living in filth and squalor in a 380 ft. three sided shack.
*****
But what makes you an expert you may ask?
Well.
I grew up in a similar environment.
My family bought 12 acres of land, 50 miles from the nearest town, in the North West back in 1982. We spent that first summer living in an army tent. During that first summer my father and mother and older brother built a 20 by 15 foot log cabin. That’s 300 square feet.
By snow fall we had a insulated, steel roofed, 300 square foot log home, it had a real cinderblock foundation, it had 3 double pained insulated windows, and it had a barrel stove.
We did not have electric, we did not have a well, we did not have indoor plumbing. Internet and cell phones did not exist in 1982. The nearest phone was at a neighbors home over three miles away. Then over the next 3 summers my father and mother built a 8 room, two story, glass windowed and hard wood floored, log home. It has a stone fireplace, a full basement, and a root cellar and a pantry.
They also built: an animal shed, a shop, a tool shed, and a woodshed.
During those years we became a working “homestead”, including 4 goats, two dozen chickens, geese, a small horse, a dog, 35 rabbits and two cats. We had a large garden as well. During none of this did we ever have: a well, a phone, air conditioning or refrigeration. We lit our home first with kerosene lamps and candles and then later with propane lanterns. We cooked our meals first on a wood stove, and later on a propane stove. We gathered our water from a local public well. (for drinking) and from a system of rain barrels, (for bathing and watering the garden.) After about 10 years we hooked up solar power and ran a system of electric lights.
We were (and my parents still are) “off the grid”:
- 33 years with no well.
- 33 years with no internet.
- 33 years with no indoor plumbing.
- 33 years with no eclectic grid hook up.
- 33 years of gardening and eating wild game.
- 33 years of gathering drinking water at a local public well.
All of us children were raised, from 1982 till 2013 when the youngest left home, in a true “homestead” environment.
We lived it.
I lived it.
For the first 18 years of my life.
I ran free in the woods, home schooled only 4 months out of the year, much of it self directed learning. I milked goats, I hunted wild game, I tilled that garden by hand, and toted water from rain barrels to water the plants. I was barefoot all summer long, from May to October. I fished in the river, at the age of 9, with no adult supervision.
It was, quite literal, “homestead” living.
It really was.
However.
We had a real house, insulated, enclosed on all 6 sides, and heated. We had a fully enclosed, 7 foot deep, ventilated outhouse, with a real toilet seat and a locking door located a sanitary distance form the house. We had bedrooms, with real beds and real mattresses, for the children, one for the girls, one for the boys, (bunk beds with your brothers can be great!) We had a bathtub. We were kept clean, very clean, by the constant work and insistence of my mother. Our farm animals were kept separate from our yard and our home by fences.
Even our yard was clean, swept with a push broom till it was smooth hard packed earth.
We were healthy.
Our meals were cooked in spotless pans and served on real ceramic plates at a real table, (solid oak, passed down from Grandpa). We had a “real” Homeschooling curriculum for all 12 grades (sure, it said electricity was a mystery and people road dinosaurs like horses just 4,000 years ago, but what can you do?)
The family of 12 (soon to be 13) living on the “Blessed Little Homestead” have none of those things.
I have been on their Facebook page.
I have looked through years of photographs.
I have read post after post, on the public Facebook page and on their public blog.
Their living conditions are among the worst I have ever seen. Ever.
My family was not the only one “homesteading” in this remote area of the Pacific North West. I knew over a dozen families living in nearly the same conditions as my self. That is: living on clean, well organized and maintained farms and homesteads, usually with out electric or plumbing, often home schooled, and deeply conservative. I knew a family living in a teepee for two years. I knew a small commune of three families living in a communal yurt. And I never, ever, saw living conditions even half as dangerous, anarchistic or filthy as what is shown on the “Blessed Little Homestead” site and Facebook page.
This family isn’t “homesteading”, they are, for all practical purposes, homeless.
This family does not have the cabin featured in some of the photographs, it was bought on credit and later “returned”.
This family was living, twelve deep, in a tree sided shack. The floor is covered in dirt and filth, the children are as well. The shack they sleep in is built from old pallets and two by fours. I won’t bore you with the details of structural integrity, but let’s just say that I am very surprised the shack did not collapse under last winters several feet of snow (photos of which are on the BLH public Facebook page) and kill or injure the 12 family members huddled inside.
(Note how the two by fours are driven, with out foundation, strait into the dirt, and how the load bearing single two by fours in the front of the shack are spaced 6 feet apart.)
I could go on for pages about the myriad dangers from accident and infection and disease these children were being exposed to on a daily basis. I could mention the animal dung covering the whole area in a layer of slime, pounded into a grimy coating by the bare feet of ten children, draining with the rain and melting snow, down hill from the “homestead” into the pond that has now, after several years of occupation, apparently gone from being home to fish and turtles (in earlier photos) to being a mud pit doubling as an open sewer choked with animal dung.
I could mention the generator and gasoline cans, (visible in several photos) located right next to the shack ( there is an extreme danger of carbon monoxide poisoning killing the entire family, in fact, the only reason I suspect this hasn’t happened yet is the fact the dwelling is not enclosed on all four sides).
I could mention the filthy conditions of the “cooking area”, including dirt encrusted plastic cups, drifting smoke and food being eaten by the grimy unwashed hands of children as young as 4 who cooked their own meals, over the open flames. (also clearly visible in photos on the B.L.H. public Facebook page.)
I could mention the photos of dog bites, wasp stings, scrapes, cuts, and bruises.
I could mention that the BLH blog links to articles about how Tetanus shots aren’t needed as long as the: “wound bleeds, cus Tetanus can’t live in oxygen and there is oxygen in your blood” (I kid you not).
I could mention the fact that with out any doubt what so ever, this “homestead” also smells like an open sewer.
It does.
I know because I grew up on a farm/homestead.
I know because you simply can’t have 8 goats, 7 dogs, two cats, a dozen chickens and twelve people living loose around a muddy pond in the Kentucky summer heat with no running water and not have it smell so rancid that it could be smelled half a mile away.
It’s impossible.
This has been framed as a “off the grid” issue. It is not. “Off the grid” does not mean, by default: dangerous, filthy, ignorant of basic food preparation and safety, anti Government and anti documentation. “Off the Grid” living can be done safely, cleanly, and in full compliance with all local laws and regulations (in many states). I know. I lived it.
This has been framed as a homeschool issue.
It is not.
Kentucky has very open homeschooling laws. It’s legal. Heck, “un-schooling” is legal there too.
The children were taken because it was unsafe. VERY unsafe, not because they were homeschooled.
This, surprisingly, has not been overly framed as a religious issue, at least not yet.
But this isn’t about homeschooling, parents rights, “off the grid living” “government control”, “erosion of our right to do what we please” etc.
It isn’t.
It is about the fact that the conditions at this particular site, in this particular case, with this particular family, where absolutely horrifyingly dangerous, unsanitary, and unsafe on multiple levels. This isn’t hearsay or supposing.
This is clearly visible in dozens on dozens of posts and photos posted publicly by the family themselves.
Quite frankly, I am surprised all the children made it out alive.
Homeschoolers Anonymous 
Excellent analysis….after several hours of research, it is my opinion that the parents are endangering the health and well-being of a dozen innocent children for the purpose of bilking “donations” from uninformed people who should stop and ask themselves the question…”why hasn’t the father got a real job and provided for his family?” Sure looks like a case of sloth and panhandling from the facebook page and the photos. I’m glad I took the time to look a little further than the sensationalized story being presented.
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Working a functioning homestead is a real job that can provide for a family if that’s what you’re actually doing. Problem is, as Gary points out, these parents are not. Anyone who knows the slightest thing about off-grid living can easily see that (which goes to show you just how much about DIY lifestyles all these red-faced libertarians who fetishize “independence” really know.)
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I think that the writer of this article is basically correct. These people have attempted an alternative lifestyle without the basic understanding and practical experience needed to achieve immediate success. They are having some failures, for sure. However, no one has died or even been seriously injured. So far it looks like a little advice and help from the experienced bloggers here would do far more to get this family on a path to success than having the state remove the children. Put aside the foster family horror stories. Just follow the money. The state will get paid by the federal government a base rate of $6000/ month per child with a net profit of well over $5000/ month. Plus a bonus per child. The states monthly profit for this group of children is over $50000 and annual profits of $600,000 . Assuming an average of 9 years in the system for these 10 kids we have up to five and a half million dollars of net profit for the state agencies who take the kids. I’m not okay with this. It creates a perverse incentive to steal kids from poor people in this kind of situation. Look at the alternatives; the state could use a small portion of this money to partner with habitat for humanity or equivalent to build a decent place with the family. The family participates, the kids learn from experienced tradespeople, like the author of this article. The difference is around 40 families could be helped in a substantial and enduring way with the same amount of money used to destroy one family.
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But the children HAVE been seriously injured………go look back through the years of posts on the blog.
-Deep scalp wounds inches long.
-Multiple cases of food borne illness (depending on the cause this could have led to death, particularly for the small children.)
-What spears to be third degree burns all over one child’s hand (from trying to use gas to start a camp fire!!?? He is very lucky he wasn’t killed.)
The point is, you learn these basics BEFORE you decide to haul 10 kids off to a shack in the woods, if you don’t, there is a good chance one of your kids could die while the parents go through the learning curve.
Children’s health and safety come before a parents right to run off and play Daniel Boon in a tree fort in the woods.
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“However, no one has died” … that we know of. They haven’t documented the children’s births, so would they document a death
And really, do you have to wait for a child to die before you remove them from a dangerous situation? Your anti-government paranoia has killed your common sense.
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“However, no one has died or even been seriously injured.”
-that we know of. the children are not documented.
” a perverse incentive ”
-raising kids is a heck of a lot of work. the concept that the gov’t would outright take kids for extra funds is illogical. It will cost much more than the state would get….caretakers, health needs, food, shelter, clothing, education and so on.
pretty sure any state gov’t will tell you they don’t get enough money from the feds in any situation.
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Do you actually work for the state in placing children in foster homes? I work for a private agency that places children in foster homes. Did you know that if the state did not have to have a foster care system, they wouldn’t?! Do you know how the state gets money for children (and private agencies as well)? Do you know that your numbers are completely wrong? Did you know that the majority of the money that gets paid to the state for placing children goes to the family that has the children to help with the amount their bills will be raised for accepting children (who aren’t there’s) in their home. You have your facts twisted.
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Where do you get your facts? Do you have proof? $6,000 per child from the federal government? I don’t think so. I was a foster parent. As a foster parent we got $400 per month for the child we had in our care. That money covered his food, shelter, clothing, toys, etc. The amount paid to foster parents varies by state and the age of the child. I know for a fact most states would love to be out of the foster care business and wish that parents would take care of their own kids. You haven’t a clue.
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I have not seen where the members over 18 are amenable to receiving advice, help, or instruction on how to live off the grid properly or to answer to demands that they improve the living situation of the children to an acceptable degree. One could say that building them a home simply rewards irresponsible behavior choices.
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Also, I understand they are building a “state of the art” building specifically for Nicole to GROOM dogs for money. Why don’t they build a better HOME for them and the children?? I have seen homeless people that live in better conditions then these people do.
I agree, EXCELLENT analysis. I too went back and looked a photos and read comments.
I personally hope these people do NOT get their children back until and unless they make substantial improvements in their living conditions.
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People who are starting small businesses never tell it like it is. It’s always business is great and I’m on the cusp of really taking off. In reality most small businesses lose money in their first five years. From what I’ve read, she was an employee at a dog grooming business and then she was fired and now she wants to set up shop in competition with her former employer. How many dog groomers can this community support?
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Terrible. Why hasn’t something been done about it already by the authorities?
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They have. All of the children where taken and placed in to 4 foster homes. The mother was arrested for disorderly conduct and chatged with resisting arrest. The father has been charged with threatening a neighbor with a gun over water. Which in my opinion is what started this. Had they simply complied when the Sheriff’s department came to check on the well being of the children ( per CPS) this might not have turned out this way. The father would probably still have been charged but the mother would not have been arrested and the children probably wouldn’t have been taken all though in my opinion they should be. I agree with the author of this story 100% It’s a wonder no has died or been seriously injured or sickened becuade of their ignorance.
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I agree 100% with what you’ve said! these people are homeless. It is all in the presentation of this situation that has the public on their side…presented in a different light, and they would have been in the press as neglectful parents.
Just an FYI about food that made them sick, if you read her July 30 post on her blog, it states that they ate bad pancakes.
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She may have guessed it was the pancakes, but it is very hard to pin-point the cause of food born illness. (As for the pancakes, were eggs used? Were they even fully cooked? ) Even cooked pancakes, sealed for a few days in a Plastic sack, unrefrigerated in the summer heat and then eaten by small children? (By the mothers own admission in the comments.)
With that kind of food safety this family is actually very lucky that one or more of the children did not die.
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I lived off-grid for a couple years, including a tent one summer. My husband lived it from birth until he left home when we married. We were healthy, cared for, (mostly) clean, just as you said. My FIL built a solid, cozy A-frame with his own hands, after they out-grew the large, tricked-out bus they were living in. We had animals with barns that looked better than these people’s “cabin”. Heck, the fort I built in the woods when I was 12 looked better. I know what homesteading is, and this ain’t it.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have watched person after person defend these people AND their living conditions (it’s no different than camping – say what?!) and I just found it deplorable. Or people saying we have no right to judge how they live. Personally, if my kids were in that kind of a situation, I would want someone to say “Hey, the way you are living is unsafe for your family” and do whatever it took to make me wake up to that reality.
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I’m just wondering how they managed not to freeze to death in the winter.
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According to her blog they had to sleep in the car for a week before getting a small prpane heater through november, then finally getting a wood stove set up, but she even states herself it was not addequate at all. Then in the question and answer she did on facebook lied saying they would have left if it was to cold because she cant handle the cold. Thankfully there are so many for body warmth i guess, but my heart breaks for those kids out there in the cold!
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They slept 3-5 to a bed, plus dogs. That could get toasty under a pile of Goodwill blankets
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As I said, I could go on for pages and pages about all the very real dangers I can see in the photos on their blog.
Here are some I did not mention in the article, but that are clearly shown on the BLH blog an FB page.
-Possible open access to guns by all children regardless of age. (this is quite possible, due to posts showing children shooting guns, and the lack of any locking doors at the “homestead” we can logically conclude that the children do have assess to what ever guns are present.)
-Extreme danger of children being horrifically burned. We can see this is a very real possibility by the plastic jugs of gasoline seen littered about the property next to the open air generators. Pair that with the open fire pits in the “kitchen” and we have a recipe for disaster. All it takes is a goat to nock over one of these gas jugs……and BOOM. I can’t stress enough how much of a VERY real possibility that is…
-Possible infections from the constant filth and grime. I think there is a disconnect in the minds of most of the family’s online supporters and what is really being show in the photos, they apparently see “happy healthy kids”…….but my guess is that most of these folks have never lived on a homestead. They don’t see the dangers because they have never seen this kind of living first hand. They apparently don’t realize that being that dirty, for that long, in the open air, with out air conditioning or real heat, can, and does, manifest as infection and sickness, particularly in children.
I know it does.
I’ve seen it.
And to all those poor uninformed souls commenting about how “all our ancestors lived like this and were fine”……….well.
-Many real life 1800s homestead families lost over 50% of their children before they could reach 18 years of age. (Doubt me? Go look it up.) Sure, some of these deaths were from things like whooping cough and other illness, but many were from accident and infection.
Historic homesteading wasn’t Little House on the Prairie…………historic homesteading often looked like a little grave yard behind the house that held several of your brothers and sisters who had died from everything from drowning to an infected cut on the foot.
I’ve actually been on some historic homesteads and seen the graveyards.
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They actually have been burned, there’s a post where it talks about a child setting himself in fire because he tried to use propane to start a bonfire. There’s photos posted of what looks to be third degree burns on his fingers. No medical attention was sought.
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Yes, they have been burned, cut, bitten, stung and scraped, all documented in HD quality on the blog and Facebook page.
One scalp wound on the head of one small child appears bone deep and several inches long.
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One od the children apparently was burned by pooring gas on their kitchen fire, the mother said it was a learning experience. Its easy to just look at the sweet children, without really looking around. One picture i saw a little baby sittibg playing with a wrench, a saw just laying right there in the background behind them, debree everywhere! I never even considered the fact that by now the mud was half poop. After reading the first sensationalized story I felt so bad for them but it didnt take long to see the real story.
They try to make it out to be about peopke just not understanding or wanting the lifestyle of off the grid. Im a homeschooling mom, with 5 kids thats goal is to get off the grid, but we would never ever put our kids into a situation like this. My husband lived in poverty growing up almost off grid, but it wasnt even this bad for him. Its jist heart breaking.
And to see people who keep saying the woman who called the police on this family should be ashamed of herself? While saying we have no rights. The husband was on her property tresspassing! And Nicole even posted (it was quickly taken down probably from attorney advice) that this situation did take place, but her husband didnt threaten, he just called the woman deraugetory names! This woman had every right to call the authorities, it just amazes me what a pretty spin can do for support on a story.
This was a fantastic article, thanks for sharing it!
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And also, Little House on the Prairie was no picnic! Even sanitized as it was for the reading audience, it is pretty clear that the Ingalls family had some seriously hard times, even though they actually possessed the necessary skills to live the “pioneer” life. The non-kid lit version is even more grim.
As for the issue of filth and grime, I think you are a right that the people defending the Nauglers just have no idea what they’re talking about. They think they’re being countercultural and reacting against the modern, mainstream (and admittedly over-the-top) preoccupation with completely sterilizing children’s environment by saying “Back in the olden days, kids were allowed to get dirty and it was good for them!” and such. They don’t realize just how filthy, not to mention environmentally devastating, farm animals can be when they aren’t managed properly. No, you don’t need to wipe down every surface a child touches with bleach (and most health professionals will tell you the same thing, it’s the cleaning product ads that disagree, not health authorities) but you should also err on the side of having them not wade through animal dung all day. Sheesh.
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Back in the “olden days” the first thing homesteaders did was dig a well so they could keep clean!
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I think they moved to the land on Whitworth Lockhard Lane in 2013.
http://s287.photobucket.com/user/TheyCallMeMomof7/library/?sort=3&page=1
I recognize some of the grooming photos from other sites.
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Excellent article, Gary. And weren’t our forebears quite anxious to improve the quality of their living from crude shacks and cabins with no running water or amenities, to having creature comforts? I realize the trend among these “off grid” folks is a return to a lifestyle that is not urban, that is more connected with nature and the sense of building where you sleep, farming what you eat,etc. That said, it is interesting that the Mom at least is very connected on the Internet, that they solicit “donations” to help them out. They are not true off-grid people, they strike me as parents who are unable to support their family and had to turn to a frugal, rural existence. If you look at photos from 2012, they were still living in a rented 4 bedroom home that looked to be comfortable. Maybe the # of children they decided to have, and inability to get decently paying work, forced the parents to “opt” for an “off grid” existence. I see it less by choice than necessity. If they had carefully chosen this path, they would have been more adequately prepared (one would hope). But 2 parents with 10 kids under age 16, with no other adults to help build out their homestead infrastructure, is a recipe for a hard struggle.
I am sorry to see these children separated, and removed from their parents, but the children are at least for now protected from the myriad dangers you pointed out. I would never support donating to these parents on their GoFundMe, but perhaps a private organization, like a Habitat for Humanity, can help them build a safer home for their family. The parents need to stop having more children they cannot adequately support.
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These folks are certainly not alone in that they have more children than they can support, and our government controls and encourages that state, by making it profitable on welfare and social programs to have a myriad of children. It wasn’t so long ago, that the news was filled with the story of the Octomom who was a single mother, already on welfare, who managed to solicit the support of medical professionals in order to have a multiple birth of even more children…..While it is a shame that these folks seem to be unable to successfully live off the grid, not having the appropriate skills and knowledge, I don’t think it is appropriate to fault them on family size. Both my husband and I have worked full time, all of our adult lives, and often at multiple jobs. Ironically, we only have two children of our own, but I have often wondered how many children I am actually raising by my tax dollars and public programs, children whom I have no control over whether they attend school, respect authority, believe in God and prayer…..yet I am made responsible for them, and potentially, that has limited my right to have a larger family. My children are clean and educated, taught to be respectful and responsible, but that is due to daily reinforcement of values in a home environment…..More than half the children in this country do not grow up with that stability, but removing them from their parent/parents is not considered PC.
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Reports are surfacing that they do not own the land.
While not confirmed, this lack of ownership of the land does seem likely do to the clear lack of money the family had at the time they moved to the current location.
IF this is correct, as has been stated elsewhere, it explains a lot.
If they don’t actually own the land, they may actually be prohibited from building any permanent structures…
If they don’t own the land they may be prohibited from cutting trees above a certain size (hence the house built from sticks instead of logs.)
This also raises some very serious concerns about the honesty of the families “Go Fund Me” campaign………while the campaign clearly does not give all the facts, one wonders where this money will actually go. (if the campaign is not shut down for misrepresented facts and violation of terms of service.)
They claim to be raising money to build a better house……….but do they even own the land?
Could they even legally build a real house on the land?
These are all very interesting questions yet to be answered.
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An actual sturdy tent would be better. I’m waffling back and forth on this. I don’t know the real details, or their intention. So, my thoughts really mean nothing. I see on one hand, a government that is VERY quick to intervene and be anxious to take away our “rights”. Then I see this, and realize even though they want to be “off grid” (as I would love to be), this is not a good environment the way it is currently set up.
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They were not VERY quick to intervene and take away rights. This is not the first time CPS has been called on them even in this state (thy have lived in several) and I’m sure their living conditions were better before like the author said.
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If you go to the actual blog, not th page, there are older posts of then living in actual rental house at least! It even had a “homeschool” school room. This place now is a glorified dump. Lol
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I’m glad I found your blog I was looking into it too. You saved me allot of time. Great observation from someone who knows how it should be.
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The truth is that the way this family lives we have no way of knowing if all of the kids have survived. Likely this is all of their kids. But the truth is that if they are all home births with no registration with the state for birth certificates, then we have no way of knowing for sure how many kids there actually are. This family has moved often, with little community around them to follow or know.
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Heather, there is a rumor on many of the blogs that say Nicole had a child that died. I don’t if it is true. I am trying to run it down, but it is difficult. No way are these people home steaders. I have met home steaders and they are smart responsible people who can put together a homestead pretty quick. These people do not look like they are home steading, it looks like they are squatting.
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I believe I read that five of the children were home births without any medical intervention or a midwife.
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This is a revolting thought that I hadn’t thought about. Ugh.
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So much this! Thank you for your insight and analysis.
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As a side note: I have been trying to establish a real timeline for events and conditions based off the posts and photos. The best I can tell it looks something like this:
2010-2011: Family moves to homestead?
2011-spring 2014: Family lives in the small pre-fab home with a working stove etc. conditions are better, youngest child has not been born, both father and mother both look to be working.
Spring of 2014: Youngest child is born. Father becomes unemployed? Pre-fab home is returned (possibly repossessed for non payment due to the father becoming unemployed?)
Late Spring 2014: First shack is built for habitation, using re-used and partly rotten lumber scavenged from some collapsed mobile homes from previous tenants on the land. (This scavenging is pictured on the blog at an earlier date).
Summer 2014: Most updates move from the blog to the Facebook page. Posts become sporadic and less organized.
Mid 2014: Children are shown on Facebook, ill with an unidentifiable food born illness, sprawled around a open fire pit in the dirt. The mothers insistence on the post that her children don’t ever become ill, and that they haven’t been sick in three years is blatantly false, proven so by her own blog post in previous years detailing other instances of food born illness.
Fall and winter 2014: Family is living all winter in an open air shack, deep snow, posts show weather down past -0 degrees (from an app no less).
Spring 2015: Mud, filth, grime and worsening conditions are seen. Video of a baby is posted, stumbling barefoot across a mud covered floor in one of the “structures”.
I am still trying to piece the time line together, it isn’t easy.
What is very clear however, is that things really went off the rails in terms of health and safety about a year ago, and were continuing to decline as of very recently.
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I was thinking that they moved to the property in October 2013 (Week 101 in their homesteading series). Before then it looked like they had been living in a real house, though going by various social media comments the mother had closed all three bedrooms and had the kids sleeping on the living room floor by somewhere during the time in that house. That’s when they also switched to using cut up rags as toilet paper and reusing them.
I might be wrong about that though, you’re definitely right that the timeline is confusing and some old posts from the blogspot site are copied over to the new one with new dates on them.
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Your right, that just made me remember that I did see pictures of a real house and it looks like they may have been living in two of them based on the decor of the living room in two photos.
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This does seem to be causing a lot of the confusion online.
For instance.
The blog has not been updated in some time, so if an article links to the BLH blog, then those reading it do NOT get a clear picture of what the living conditions are today, as the blog shows them still living in the cabin.
Reading many of the articles and comments leads me to believe that as much as 75% of commenters bribe the family was living in the small prefab house all this time.
This is not the case.
One has to go to the BLH Facebook page to get any info more recent than a year old.
It’s confusing lots of people, and I suspect quite a few of the online “news” sites do know the truth, but are posting a more sensationalized version of events in order to drive web traffic.
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If memory serves me well… I was in a trailer home they were renting around 2011. I was asked to go there to deliver meals, food, blankets, and donated goods. We had heard she was out there with several kids and that her husband was incarcerated. At the time we didn’t know much more than that. I won’t go into many more details about how or why I was there. The trailer home was deplorable. We pulled up and there were boards, trash lying everywhere. We also noticed buckets of human feces. The inside smelled so foul and feces was all over the floor. Didn’t know if it was dog or human. Piles of it. What was interesting is she wouldn’t let the kids go in any of the other bedrooms because she said she’d rather have the whole family sleeping together in the same room. I looked at the children and gave them candy we had brought and they were so thankful. The little ones were nude and smelled awful. We promptly left and later heard from someone that they completely destroyed the inside after the owner told them to leave as they didn’t pay rent. They also had a couch and table and there was a bed set up that I could see. There was also a bookshelf of some sort and tons of Rubbermaid bins full of flour and other items. They didn’t look clean. The kitchen was filthy and they had no refrigerator although we later heard a neighbor gave them a refrigerator. What I don’t understand is they had a decent home to rent. A decent size for a large family and nice property to raise a garden and animals with a barn on property as well. What was the problem? They go from place to place and pay no one. Almost like homeless people. I did hear that they are always at local churches asking for handouts and I do know of a particular church that gave them a lot of help until the husband started trouble with the church leader and then they were told to leave.
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Gary, I am so appreciative of your blog here. I’ve been following this, too. Just wanted to give you a “nod” of solidarity.
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Thank you.
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A couple of people have said the mother wouldn’t let the kids sleep in the bedrooms when they had actual houses. Wanted all of them in one room…where she could see and hear them all night. Where they could see and hear each other all night. One of this guy’s children has already been free of his influence long enough to feel safe enough to testify against him on sexual abuse, what does this precaution sound like on her part in that light? That was not a bizarre behavior, that was a primitive safety plan to keep him off the kids.
Things I saw on her Facebook, they have those kids deeply indoctrinated to hate and fear authority figures. It is going to take a while before they feel safe enough to share anything, unless they happen to let things slip by innocence of how extremely abnormal their life was. I feel worst for those teenage boys. They are the hardest to place when it comes to foster care (in my experience as a cps worker (former)), and they are likely to have to have the biggest chips on their shoulders regarding authority, making them even harder to keep in a stable home.
Also, looking through I noticed post after post of dog bows and beautiful items and then statements about how she had the older kids under 13 making those for the family to sell, and I thought ‘Ahaaaa.’ It seems like the boys built their kitchen (according to a video), pictures of them building the shed, pictures of them building the inside of the shed. Occasional shots of the dad standing watching. One of them built the wagon that they little kids were using to transport water–which, by the way, if they were transporting it, and from pictures of where the cart was left and the direction it was coming from, were they getting water out of that pond for non-drinking water? Washing, etc. The kids were the ones homesteading as best as they were able to, the parents just seemed lazy.
I’ll be honest, I saw some shockingly dirty homes, people who were shockingly unable to care for their kids just because they were so supremely unable to care for anyone including themselves. I live in a rural state where it was made very clear that not having running water and indoor plumbing were *not* reason enough to find true for neglect so long as there was access to clean water and a proper outhouse. I grew up in poverty in the 1980’s in an area that when I saw those videos of the kids from Appalachia that were supposed to be so shocking, I thought that’s not much different than here (and it wasn’t), and these people? These people are the–wait, I can’t say worst! Equal to the worst I’ve ever seen. (they are definitely worse than any I ever saw as a cps worker).
Our community had a family very much like this. Squat in one place until it was falling down around them and then move on. Filth and grime and ragged, neglected kids. (these kids would have gotten there quickly at the rate this family was deteriorating), and it wasn’t that that family had so much less than any other family in the area, they just couldn’t/wouldn’t take care of themselves. No pride of place, no self-esteem, no willpower to not live like that. You can’t help people like that. They will take and take and take and it never does them any good. Nothing ever improves. Build them a new home, put them in a new home, bring them money, food, and clothing on a regular basis and it would always end up looking like that again. I’m glad we don’t live in the 1980’s anymore so that these kids have a state government willing to intervene, so they might have some slim chance of breaking that cycle.
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I meant to reply to this post. I think the photobucket site I found (it’s clearly Nicole’s) provides additional information regarding when they evidently changed their family life. Profoundly. Not for the better.
I think they moved to the land on Whitworth Lockhard Lane in 2013.
http://s287.photobucket.com/user/TheyCallMeMomof7/library/?sort=3&page=1
I recognize some of the grooming photos from other sites.
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Thank you for finding this.
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Gary,
You’re welcome. By the way, it was confirmed by an employee of Custer General Store that they do live on Whitworth Lockhard Lane. According to the county property records, they aren’t listed as owning (purchasing) the property. That land is owned by Gordon Board and Steve Aulbach (Kentucky Land Company, Irvington). They may be unauthorized users too, and they certainly aren’t increasing the value of the property with their activities.
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Do you know the actual address? I have looked up property in that county for the nauglers using their name and came up empty. But the same for the Gordon Board and Steve Aulbach and Kentucky Land Company. Am I in the wrong county? I was checking Breckinridge?
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Mr. Zabel – I do know the actual address, but posting it here isn’t permitted. I don’t know how to share it with you without violating our host’s rules.
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Breckinridge County is correct.
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Gary, I want to thank you for your very educational observations on what research you did into this “situation”. You are very correct when you say that most people only see the happy healthy kids and not the very real dangers you have noted one by one. I am grateful to God all these children “made it out alive.”
I pray those folks can help themselves enough to get their children back and be a family again. I can’t imagine how the kids must feel, not only taken from their parents but their siblings as well. I would imagine none of them has spent many nights apart from each other.
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This family could greatly benefit from such educational resources as:
-“Where there is no doctor.”
A book my family and many others had and used for reference, it gives lots of practical advice about tending to the sick, identifying illnesses, Preventing food born illness and infection etc.
While I personal recommend folks DO go to the doctor, if they insist on not going, using the helpfull knowledge in this book can save lives.
-“The Boyscouts Handbook”.
We had the big one, (300 pages?)
This book shows how to build real structures, how to keep a camp clean, how to prepare food safely in an camping area, how to properly pitch a tent, first aid, wild animal safety and a long list of other useful things.
-“The Foxfire Books”
The full set, if you can get them.
These books were written from interviews of actual homesteaders who knew the “old ways” of doing things. While some of the info is what amounts to superstition and has no practical use, much of the info is great, and can be used to great affect while living in a homestead situation.
Homesteading can, and has, been done safely and cleanly and legally, it does, however, require a keen eye, a clear head, honesty with oneself about ones abilities and resources.
Imaging homesteading like you would flying a plane with your family on board…….you can do it, it can be done legally and safely……….but you better know what your doing or it won’t end well for those under your care.
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Sorry, ……* You’re
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Yes. My family were definitely not hard-core homesteaders, but we tended in that direction. “Back to Basics” is another good reference book for those interested in (actual) homesteading.
This whole story is appalling. Our goats and chickens had better living conditions than these babies.
These parents COULD have set up a decent homestead if they took the initiative. As you pointed out, a couple of motivated, able-bodied adults can build a livable structure over the course of a summer if they set their minds to it. Years later and all they have is… this?!
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Where there is no doctor …Ask any missionary family living overseas and they will tell you they have a copy. Made me smile. Long forgotten book.
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Gary – You may find the books you’re seeking at http://www.abebooks.com
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Necroposting to add another good one: The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery. A rancher’s daughter and farmer’s wife, Emery wrote from her experiences on her homeplace, but she also collected thumbnail descriptions of how to grow or raise or cook or can or dry or build pretty much anything in any climate zone anywhere in the 50 States and most territories! Any edition is good, but later editions include URLs. Speaking of which, Sasquatch Books has set up a fan site at encyclopediacountryliving.blogspot.com.
I get the impression that Emery’s book may not be as popular as others because she does not sugarcoat the realities of country life, especially on a tight budget. She also includes an essay on exactly what it’s like to home-nurse an unvaccinated child through a bout of diphtheria–after which she converted from pre-autism-scare anti-vax to on time, every time.
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I’m so glad someone else saw this story in the same light I did! I can’t stand someone to defend these parents. I don’t understand how on earth they survived the winter–and last winter was a whopper! There were temps in the negative and some pretty heavy snow in that area, if I’m not mistaken. Here’s what I think–they don’t know what the heck they’re doing, so they (the parents, that is) are stumbling through life, making decisions based on what THEY want, hoping to do the very least to get by and crossing their fingers they can make some money through donations because everybody grins when they see a large family… It kills me thinking those kids may have gone so long without access to safe foods (obviously this was an issue judging by the post about them all being sick). It kills me even more knowing they were sleeping in a shack similar to the tree house my cousin built in my front yard.
But, the tree house has four sides and a roof and floor that do their jobs.
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I too grew up in the north west. Kettle falls Washington. We had a mobile home on property out of the town of around 900. Some of my friends had outhouses and had lanterns for light. Every one had gardens and the men hunted. It was just the way of life up there in the 60′ s and early 70’s.
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Hey there, I’m from Valley and know Kettle Falls well, and all the fun homesteading folks in the area. 🙂 We lived off-grid up there too for while. But we were warm, clean, well-fed, and safe. These people aren’t homesteading. They’re homeless.
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Thank you, Darcy!!
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she used to work for me, the kids all smelled like pee, at the time they had the shed they all lived in. her children may look healthy but there are some serious problems going on. they would steal from me, olivia decided to just do it while starring me in the eye. joe is a piece of work, my daughter got him a job at the hotel she worked at, and he was fired for many reasons, like enjoying nice hot showers on the clock, doing their family’s laundry in the hotels machines, this was discovered because the “clean” sheets and towels were suddenly covered in straw and dirt,he also would spend his time away from the desk and instead sit in one of the other rooms and watch espn, and finally he was fired for theft. oh and during this time he burrowed money from my daughter to buy pot and then refused to pay her back and threatened her and her boyfriend. i finally had to talk to nichole about getting the money returned. and she had no idea he had even burrowed it. she is not angel either, she would work her kids at my shop because she was pregnant and pay them 1.00 a dog and would go get herself McDonalds and they would have to buy their own food. i had to make rules that no child under 13 could be there because she was having children who were too small to be able to control a dog and i was worried they would get hurt. i witnessed the burned hand and the gashed head and neither child got medical attention. i fired her because this family and their craziness was too much for me to handle and joe was trying to bully me so i banned him from my shop. they have had people donating to them on a regular basis as well as hitting up churches ect in our area. in my opinion they do not really care about their children they care more about their “wholesome” life they are trying to portray to their mindless followers. on facebook, they also have had problems with cps and the police in the past so this it not a one time deal and they always record them and post them on fb to prove they are being harassed for their lifestyle, instead of the truth like their tags are expired and they have no insurance. i have never been to their home and do not know its location aside from a generalized area. they have some group funding their state of the art new grooming shop so they can get out of poverty yet she is pregnant again and now they are raising money to buy themselves a house.. can we say scam? they are liars and manipulators and their kids are just pawns and that is my opinion
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I can back up the statement about the kids working at the dog grooming shop, the mother posted several photos of this activity.
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Have you ever given this information to the sheriff and CPS? They may not know everything these parents have been up to. Thank you for your story. We all want to help people in need, but like you I tried to help a family where the parents were teaching the children to lie and steal and then claiming the police were harassing them. It got so bad I just walked away and called CPS myself. I never found out what happened to them.
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no once they were out of my life i had no contact with them at all, i had read on fb she had another job and things seemed to be good for them or it seemed. i had no idea how far things had gone in the year since i fired her. but i knew her beliefs and actions would eventually lead to this outcome
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Have you been on the families Facebook and blog?
Go check it out.
All this is backed up by posts and photos posted by the parents themselves.
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(User Chris Owens was deleted for spamming the site.)
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I sure wish you were able to comment at their court hearings.. You could give that judge an ear full. I would at the very least contact CPS and perhaps even the Sheriff. IMO these kids deserve at least that.
As I commented above, I sure hope none of the children are given back to them until or unless they improve their living conditions and both get paying job and can demonstrate they can keep them.
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How in the world are these people taking pics and making a facebook page/blog if they are so impoverished? Not that I disagree with your assessment, but I’m just wondering. Maybe they are doing it all via cell phones and solar chargers?
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Mobile phone and they have at least one vehicle that runs, so they may be charging the phone(s) when they’re driving about. Perhaps they have solar chargers too.
Facebook is free and the internet may be available to them at the local library or via wi-fi hot spots.
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These people have lived there a year…that is not a long time to build everything. I haven’t seen the pond. Maybe they have a lot to learn. Not everyone knows it all when they start a new adventure. Me and most of my family could live off grid and survive. People who cant, you are in for a rude awakening when a war comes here to our shores. Istill think the kids were not in danger. I DID NOT SEE THE POND IN REFERENCE TO THE HOUSE. The house has a 4th wall that was used in the winter. Not all kids have everything, but most would rather have their MOM AND DAD than anything else. The man that wrote this story seems like he has an agenda as his life was much better than most, yet he has a problem with it. He lived much priviledged existance.for his time..but a six walled house, much of this he has made up. I think everyone should have freedom to raise their families to the best of their abilities.and I think this family is trying to do just that. If they need help, I pray they get it. Istill think there should have been help offered instead of the harm that has actually,( not could have), happened to these kids by our government. I am going to review the photos now.
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All 4 walled houses have 6 sides if constructed correctly….4 walls….1 roof…and 1 floor. That makes six sides.
Perhaps you should read the post more carefully before you accuse me of lying.
As for making things up, I didn’t.
And I was privileged?
Really? We were dirt poor.
Poorer than poor.
So poor I didn’t get a pair of new shoes till I was 12 years old. (Hand me downs from older brothers instead).
So poor we lived off mostly wild fish, potatoes, garden food we grew our selves, and wild game.
I only tasted beef steak about 3 times before I turned 18 years old.
Yes, we were poor, Yes, there were many internal problems in our home, I never said it was a “happy” home, I just pointed out the differences between people who take off the grid living seriously, and people living in mud and grime with sick children and no real house.
We may have been poor, But by golly we were CLEAN.
And by golly our mother knew what we were eating, and it was cooked in a real kitchen and served on real plates.
And we had a house, a real house my father and mother built from lumber and logs they cut to shape with an Alaskan saw mill (google it) and yes………….it did have six sides.
All the best box shaped structures do……
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I guess not everyone knows that a cube has six sides.
This is a non-sequitur but what happens with your parents and other homesteaders as they get into their sixties and older? Trudging though the snow in 20 below weather at two in the morning doesn’t sound that doable for someone who is no longer a spring chicken.
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Thank you for that in depth analysis. All the alternative media is calling this a witch hunt by the government. I have called in to many talk shows asking them to evaluate the evidence from Nicole Nauglers web site and they will not do it. I am afraid that this situation could turn violent because many talk show hosts are calling for armed rebellion in that county if the children are not given back. If you have a chance to listen to Nicole’s audio you can hear that she may very well be suicidal and needs to be held for a pysch evaluation. She repeatedly tells the sheriff to kill her. This is one of the saddest situations I have seen in recent years. By the way the home school people, and free range people are asking that this family not be associated with them as they have enough trouble with bad media attention.
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This situation, based off all the evidence I’ve seen, looks less like “un-schooling” and more like “Lord of the Flies” set in Kentucky…..
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that despite publicly posted posts and photos, publicly posted by the very family themselves, of such things as:
1. Grave injuries to multiple children, including horrific burns and inches long scalp wounds.
2. Several documented cases of serious bouts with food borne illness, including up to 7 of the children at once.
3. Dozens of images posted of filthy and unsanitary conditions.
4. Photos showing how poorly built and rickety the “cabin” is.
5. Clear audio of the mother calling a Sheriff Deputy a “whore of the state” and screaming “shoot me”.
6. Images of open gas cans left out around camp fires.
7. A well documented criminal history for the father stretching back over multiple arrests, warrants, and over a decades time.
Even after ALL that being publicly available to anyone with 15 min. And an Internet connection………….
Even after ALL that (not even mentioning the accusations of child abuse, theft and threats) Even after all that……………thousands on thousands of people are STILL supporting this family based off a couple of clearly biased articles from online publications that are the modern day equivalent to the old black and white tabloids featuring such headlines as “Bat Boy Lives” and “Elvis ALIVE, caught in love nest with the Queen of England”.
(Shaking my head, slowly, with my face in my hands.)
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and donating money to them. they have gotten autos, they are getting a grooming shop now people are funding them a new home…it boggles my mind they are making money from this…
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btw they know where i live… so if my house burns down… just sayin
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Gary, I want to thank you, thank you for your insight and intelligence. This situation has me questioning the intelligence of the masses. You have articulated everything that has been swirling around in my mind. Right down to the”Lord Of The Flies”. My heart breaks for the kids, this couple is certifiably mentally ill. It’s a shame that this has gone on for as long as it has. I am still having much difficulty understanding the blind support, to the tune of $60,000….
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“Mosquito Coast” and “The Glass Castle” appear to be viewed as how-to guides by the parents. While there were fantastic elements in both the movie and the book, I note that Jeannette Walls’ siblings don’t go about re-creating their childhoods.
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I agree! This is crazy!
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William, I am listening to the audio now. She seems very paranoid and definitely defiant of law enforcement as well. As a mother, as a parent, if I had absolutely nothing to hide from law enforcement regarding my child’s health and well care, I would gladly allow the officers onto my property to search my home and talk with my children. The fact that they were gathering belongings and taking care of the dog (making sure she/he was fed, watered and untangled) because the officers “intimidated” the supposed woman who had been looking after the dog wouldn’t come back to care for the dog, because the mom and 2 oldest sons were the only ones at the property when the officers arrived, that the dad had the other children somewhere, makes me think the family knew this was coming, knew that there was a valid report to CPS, and were going to make a run for it. They obviously have an issue with law enforcement and authority and are very much into making it known that they know their Constitutional rights. Do they know their “LEGAL” rights by law? Because to saw she knows her Constitutional rights and wants her lawyer makes me feel like she has those two terms mixed up. Overall, it’s a very sad situation. And I hope that the parents get the help they need (because I think they need mental health, emotional health, and obviously financial help) before they get those kids back.
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Thank you, Gary, for your insightful analysis of the situation. These are horrific living conditions, even for animals much less children. Then you got the idiots who agree with the way these children are living, down with the government, sue them when you get your kids back. OMG!!! They don’t deserve to get the children back, not under these conditions!!! Can you imagine what a treat it must be for them to eat a hot meal, take a warm bath, curl up in a clean bed? Your story offered insight and common sense…….something sorely lacking with these questionable “parents”.
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As for medical care, I asked her abouto this, and she claims they are both ‘naturopaths,’ but didn’t respond when I asked where they got this traing. One person who apparently worked with the husband said he showed her a video of him stitching up one of the kids with a regular needle and thread, which were not sterile. I called this out as a scam from the get-go; I really appreciate your filling in details with your personal knowledge, and yes, they are all very lucky to be alive.
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Stitching a wound with a unsanitary needle and thread can lead to infection, followed by blood poisoning and death.
If this took place the child is lucky to be alive.
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Not that “naturopathic” tranining is worth much anyway, since most of it is ridiculous pseudomedicine. But it does take years to get so I’m gonna go ahead and say she was lying about that.
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I know these people from when they used to live in the same town as I do and attended the same church. Neither Joe or Nicole have any type of Naturopathic training and more than likely don’t even know what that word means. Every thing they know comes off the internet. The sad thing is they Nicole has no problem getting medical care of herself. She drove all the way up to Louisville twice to have some dental work done yet she will not take her kids to the doctor for anything . I have called CPS on them twice in the past and I am really not sure how they were able to pull the wool over the social workers eyes then.
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I babysit for a true Naturopathic doctor. She actually has an MD. Ten years worth of schooling. Its NOT just a little training.
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Best comment yet!…the LMN movie title of this family best be titled “Lord Of the Flies set in Kentucky”
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I am not hating on anyone…….the publicly posted photos of sick and seriously injured children living in a three sided shack and covered in grime do all the talking.
Here’s a question…….if these things don’t constitute child endangerment in your mind, then what does?
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After reading your post and looking through their pictures carefully, I must agree with you.
I don’t homestead, but I do think it’s an awesome idea. I bet homesteading also takes years of planning and preparation, and tons of hard work.
Your parents had stamina, plans, and goals, which I don’t believe the Naglers have.
They’re not even at a standstill, they’re moving backwards. I’m sure they love their children very much, but they must see that the living conditions are getting worse. I can’t even imagine the winters there. Thank you for sharing this.
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Thank you for this article. It’s the most complete one I’ve seen to date. I linked it into the one I did for Greenville Parenting & Family Examiner as a “must read.”
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I still don’t see any information in the public record (county) that indicates the Naugler’s are purchasing or own the land. They may be leasing it, or maybe they are unauthorized users of it.
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They don’t own the land. When they first moved to the property they had a rent to own arrangement with a company. The arrangement includes a prefab shed that they used to live in and the land. The decided to return the shed to the company but have continued to live on the land (I’m not sure if they are still paying on the lam or not but probably aren’t since neither one of them have had a job in several months). Nicole is all over Facebook saying that the grooming business that she is starting is a way for them to build a better “cabin” but what she fails to mention is that she had a private grooming business here in Elizabethtown that failed because she has no idea how to run a business. During this time she was renting a house (in town) and the children were still neglected and the house was always filthy. Her family ended up getting evicted from there and taken to court for all the damage they caused to the property and for back rent. After that they began living (with the children) with a polygamous family because according to Joe and Nicole God intended for humans live like that. However, the could not even live among polygamist and caused too many problems there and were forced to leave. That it when they moved to their current location and you know the rest of the story.
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I gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe she had to close the business in Elizabethtown when the electricity rates were hiked. I found the pdf online that had the rates, the people directly affected, etc. Since I found and posted it on another forum I frequent, Patricia posted with more information about Nicole’s professional practices. Sounds as though this business is doomed as well. To be fair, MOST small businesses fail in their first year. Doesn’t mean they all do – but it takes a dash of good luck in addition to a huge amount of effort.
Click to access …est_121313.pdf
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I also called the business that owns the land, plus the local general store. Land company, “No comment”. Local store, ‘we don’t know them well enough to say donating money to them is a good idea or not.’ Damning with faint praise = don’t donate because ______, in my view.
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Great analysis, thank you.
So many red flags are raised including this:
From the Facebook page:
“What about learning? When do they have school? They are constantly learning everything they do is learning even when it looks like play.
I honestly can’t tell you how Abigail learn to read or how Zachary learned to do math, I just know that they know it because I see them do it. “
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I suspect that the older children taught them. That’s the standard operating procedure in many large homeschooled families.
At least someone in the family cares enough to teach the young ones how to read.
It isn’t the parents, that much is clear by their own publicly posted statements.
My bet is on the oldest daughter.
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This is a very good article– thank you for writing it. I’m going to share it various places. I absolutely detest the practice of removing unschooled children from homeschooling families and placing them in foster care. This is as traumatic an experience for the children as can be imagined, obviously for the parents as well, but I’m thinking about the children now. State authorities and foster parents have absolutely no understanding of people who live this way and can cause incredible damage to children, even if they are not outright abusive (which many are). It is a horrible trauma for children who have lived this way all of their lives to suddenly find themselves in public schools, dealing with public schooled children, the whole thing just hurts me. I wish people who do understand this life, who have lived it, would become foster parents who could be called upon in situations like this. Over two decades ago I was suddenly alone, a single mother, with nine children who had pretty much always been homeschooled in the context of deeply religious community. The thought at that time of sending my never-schooled children to public school terrified me, for good reason. And I am terrified for these children, for their mental, emotional and physical well-being. I wish there were foster homes that were almost like halfway houses for such children where they did not have endure such a shocking immersion in modern life. Some children just do not recover from this. Anyway, thanks again for this excellent piece. I think these parents got in way over their heads. They had no idea what they were doing. My heart breaks for the entire family.
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“I wish there were foster homes that were almost like halfway houses for such children where they did not have endure such a shocking immersion in modern life.”
I really like that idea. Most people don’t understand what a shock it will be for the children.
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That is a good idea.
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They’re like kids who have been raised by wolves
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In Kentucky we do have foster parents like that. I can’t say these kids are there, but we even have Amish foster parents. (Hope that helps)
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You took the words right out of my mouth. I was even considering starting a blog to say just this, but now I don’t need to. I am not a homesteader but know that what you describe growing up in was an actual homestead. The Nauglers are not. I hope people will listen to you. I live in the county in which the Nauglers “reside”. I am appalled at the amount of blind following they have received. It sickens me. Thank You.
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Thank you!!! It’s so disturbing to see people defend this family. I can only imagine how happy those kids are in a warm house, with warm beds with real food with their foster families!!!!
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Wow, thank you for this. I hate how this is being framed as the family being persecuted for “homesteading” or living “off-grid.” What they are doing is not homesteading and I am also completely horrified by the pictures that they seem to think will inspire warm fuzzies in viewers. I’ve been saying this so much I’m blue in the fact but, like you say, homesteading takes actual skills to be able to do safely and properly. My dad’s family is on the hippie/environmentalist side of things, not the libertarian/conservative side and none of them actually lives on a homestead but they certainly could (and most of them have lived in such situations for a few years at a time in the past) and they incorporate a lot of DIY into their lives. Not all of them can do every single one of these things but, among the lot of them, they can raise or hunt animals, garden and forage, cook from scratch, make their own clothes (and, in my dad’s case, tools), preserve food, build safe and sturdy homes etc. It took them all years to learn these things and they started young, as did the frontier settlers that I’m sure the Nauglers imagine they are emulating.
Homesteading and DIY living are about more than just flouncing away while yelling “YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME! I’M RUNNING AWAY” at society. You need to actually know what you’re doing. Thank you so much for making that point so well.
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Homesteading and DIY living are about more than just flouncing away while yelling “YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME! I’M RUNNING AWAY” at society. You need to actually know what you’re doing.
I wish this site had a like button! What you posted has been going through my head every time I read another of Mrs. Naugler’s artless revelations. It’s like the two of them are stuck at the sullen tween/teen “I wanna car an’ no curfew an’ no stupid tests an’ no chores an’ a bigger allowance an’ if I don’t get what I want when I wannit it’s cuz yer bein’ NO FAY-URRRRR” stage, except that they are now adults and capable of doing so much more damage.
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Good piece. So many people romanticize off-the-grid living, but they don’t always realize that there are right and wrong ways to live like that. My dad was surprised when heard that people think “Into the Wild” was an inspirational story because, quoting my dad here, the guy was an idiot. He went off to live in the wilderness without proper survival skills or gear. You can’t just one day decide to wander into the woods and live off the land. Doing that takes a LOT of preparation and skill.
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My husband watched that movie and laughed at the idiocy of that guy.
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Ask pretty much anybody in Alaska: that guy, God rest his soul, was really stupid.
Trying to overwinter in Alaska in a bus with a sack of rice and calling that wilderness living is the same kind of stupid playacting as calling a three-wall shack in a mudpit a homesteader’s cabin. Hopefully the current situation will resolve before somebody (say, a child who didn’t sign up for this mess) dies.
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As a side note: My parents planned and trained for several years before our family actually made the move on to our land.
This included but was not limited to:
1. Floor plans drawn out by my mother for the first cabin and sheds.
2. Tools purchassed to build the cabin.
3. A stack of “how to” books about three feet high. Bookmarked and read over and over before they ever even set foot on the land.
4. My father was in the Boyscouts from childhood, then had military training and service (honorably discharged.)
My mother had been a summer camper and then later a camp councilor at a YWCA camp.
5. A solid plan for income, factoring in the time and money that would be needed to build the homes and out buildings.
At this point that whole area surrounding the shacks is pretty much destroyed and contaminated, it needs time for the animal dung to compost and for grass to grow back before it could be used again.
This is not a case of ” they need better walls” this is a case of “tearing it down and burn the wood”.
They would need to move building areas completely, which should be easy to do if they really do own 26 acres.
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Gary:
You are clearly a thoughtful and intelligent man…. (what was your own homeschooling like?)
I want to ask how living “off grid” affected you as you matured to adulthood and came into contact with the larger society? I had occasion to see a film script (for an upcoming movie) about about a family who has been living an extreme off-grid existence for 10 years. Subplots dealt with the (5) children’s experiences in re-entry to society, their confusion, fascination, bewilderment when first exposed to modern conveniences, popular culture, peer relationships with kids raised in society, etc….
How did living in a remote, self-sustaining existence and being home schooled, inform or otherwise impact you as an adult? I am not critical of the off-grid movement when people live it in healthy, truly sustainable ways. Most of us nature enthusiasts/campers are basically urban people who find solace in “roughing it” over a weekend of simplicity, starry skies, no noise pollution, but few could make this choice full-time.
Many thanks for your insightful blog on this.
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It is a nuanced and complicated experience.
It isn’t as if I didn’t know all of the modern life convences did not exist, it’s that they did not take a part in my day to day life.
Take this family for instance.
They know what a sink and a real flushing toilet are. They see them every time the visit a public restroom on frequent trips to town for food and gasoline.
They know what a computer is, they own one. They also own a good digital camera, at least two cars, electric lights, multiple generators, and at least one smart phone.
You KNOW all the other parts of modern life are there as well, such as Public School, friends other than your siblings, indoor heating with thermostats, electric ovens, toasters, TV etc.
All of the working parts of modern life are known to you, right there, in every house and business you enter, but they aren’t YOURS, you can’t Own them.
Leaving and moving out on your own is like visiting a foreign country where the culture is completely different.
The mistake is in thinking that ALL things are different, that off the grid children are confused by light switches or flushing toilets, that they don’t know who the Ninja Turtles are or that they don’t know how crossing a street works.
All of that is pandering, patronizing and ridiculous.
I stopped telling new people about how I was raised a few years after I left home because of exactly those kind of reactions.
Things that WERE culture shock were things like being alone in a group of people my own age with out the back up of my siblings.
Things like the sound of running refrigerators at night in normal homes used to wake me up. All the little, imperceptible things that people in civilization never even notice, those things are the things that come to mind.
It is also a mistake to think that all the “new” things about entering modern life are frightening, confusing or traumatic.
It can be, and was for me personally, the most exilierating thing I’d ever done.
Remember, for parents who begin living off the grid it is a new adventure………..but the children it’s all they know…….their big adventure comes when they leave.
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Thank you for a brave, eloquent, and persuasive essay on this sad situation. I have no ties to homeschooling. I ended up here looking for more information, and thank goodness I found it. Every dysfunctional family has happy photographs. Children feel too responsible to let their fear and misery show, especially if mom is blogging. I was reminded of another off-grid family, the Souths, who lived in the desert outside San Diego in the 1930s. Marshal South kept his family naked, on a mountaintop, and his tales of their primitive life published in DESERT magazine were popular nationwide. Photographers came and famous people visited to see their beautiful handmade home and lifestyle. But it was all a fantasy, perpetrated by Marshal.
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Thank you.
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“Quite frankly, I am surprised all the children made it out alive.”
I think it’s improbable, but possible that not all the children did make it out alive. Without birth certificates, ss numbers, etc, and living far from anyone checking them out over the years, who’s to say that a kid or two just didn’t survive and they dealt with that by secrecy?
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While I’m a big proponent for individual rights, living off the grid, eating from nature/unprocessed foods, dirt being healthy for you, etc….
This…is a tough call
.
We live in a Clorox society.
We follow the aristocratic snobbery of living in the same parliamentary, a-box-called-a-house way the French, Spanish, and English did when they founded America.
They came.
They called the purest, most-healthy people in the world “savages” and then they killed and/or imprisoned…and they were the new “rightful” owners of amazing American land.
(Or I might note that those who weren’t killed directly by white men, fell ill and died with sickness and disease that came with a population who chose to wipe their feces off of their rears with their chosen hand.)
So with our emerald, chemical-ridden lawns…our easy-100-ingredient foods…our plastic oasis…we easily see them as “savages” while we watch commercials telling us that “it’s not clean unless it’s Clorox clean”.
And when we see families who choose a life SOOOO much different than ourselves, we gasp and call them trashy animals.
Well. Poo.
I see the danger of forcing a particular lifestyle on someone else.
I see how one size DOES NOT FIT ALL in our melting pot of cultures, religions, and races.
I see how HEALTHY it is to NOT live a fast-food-fast-living lifestyle.
But.
This *may* be a tad too far for me.
You can live off of the grid.
You can love nature and dirt and growing things and homeschooling and unschooling and be as crunchy as a granola bar…
but you HAVE to consider the things you mentioned.
Keeping untrained animals out of living areas as to not relieve themselves in an area you’re putting your crawling baby–yes.
Having a homestead build or capable of warding off -20 degree weather in the winter–yes.
Picking up garbage, glass, etc and putting in a designated dump…(which from experience you do create your own dump on a property without public waste services)…yes.
Making sure food that may sicken your entire family is discarded because at any given time your 10 children may be rummaging for food…yes.
What I’m saying is that there’s a line of a “clean” way to homestead.
And the Native American Indians were the prime example.
Heck…the beautiful Native African Mama with the baby on her back wrapped in hand-dyed cloth working in a field is a prime example.
But there’s that fine line.
There’s…what?
A pride in your work? In your environment?…. that is the difference between squalor and “gridding”.
But that’s just *MY* opinion.
(And I’m sure there were lazy American Indians and Native African Mamas as expected by nature.)
All I know is that if you drive outside of ANY major city in America you WILL find a property littered with junk.
It is normal. (Especially in the rural here in Ohio.)
And it doesn’t fit in with our TV telling us something different.
But now that the interwebs and TV has a hold of this family, they might just have to re-think their grounds and clean the poo and glass from the yard.
And they may have to have a special space or “bed” for each of their kids.
It’s all just a big toe outside of *my* personal comfort zone and I’m extremely liberal with rights, crunchiness, Second Amendment, homeschooling/unschooling, etc.
Whatever the breakdown, I hope the family is reunited and given a chance to make things more structured in the least.
No kids belong in foster care.
*shrug*
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Free range parenting is one thing, “homeschooled” is one thing (that’s how I was raised)………..but when your filth covered baby is sitting in just a diaper in mud right next to a rusty and mud covered saw blade?
When you post, in public, how you have no idea, what so ever, how your younger children learned how to read, and somehow you think that’s OK?
Come on.
If those kids grow up to 18 years old not knowing basic math or how to read or write, that to me, is a serious problem.
It also leaves them very vulnerable, as adults, to exploitation and abuse.
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Gary, m’love.
I totally agree with you.
Which is why I said:
“Keeping untrained animals out of living areas as to not relieve themselves in an area you’re putting your crawling baby–yes.
Having a homestead build or capable of warding off -20 degree weather in the winter–yes.
Picking up garbage, glass, etc and putting in a designated dump…(which from experience you do create your own dump on a property without public waste services)…yes.
Making sure food that may sicken your entire family is discarded because at any given time your 10 children may be rummaging for food…yes.”
(These examples make me not support their living conditions.)
Their situation is a touch past my comfort zone.
There’s a ‘right’ way to homestead and a squalorific way to homestead.
Cheers!
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PS.
I read all of the Facebook comments littering all of their pictures and had to make a comment about how there is *nothing* wrong with homesteading.
Some people need to be educated as to how it’s OK to *not* live in a traditional set up.
And just because *someone else* may not like it, as long as basic comforts are provided, it is A-OK.
Again… this situation I’m uncomfortable with.
The family needs to be given a chance to “clean up” their act, though.
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There is a big difference between “free range” children and “feral” children. It’s a shame that the Naugler’s are apparently conflating them.
I’m also astounded at how many tools and bits of debris are left to lay around that property. Doesn’t anybody insist that people take care of them? No one chases down any of these children to ensure things are picked up and returned to their proper place? Preferably after getting wiped down and lightly oiled, of course.
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They’re free-range parents in the same way that they’re unschoolers, homesteaders, and naturopaths: because they said so shut up.
The absolute first thing a free-range parent would do on that land would be to assess the statistically most likely threats to their children’s safety, such as, gee, AN UNFENCED POND, and take steps to prevent them!
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I totally agree with you! I’m all for people want to homestead and live off the grid. But, as you have said, there is a “clean” way to do so. Someone posted an news copters ariel shot of their “homstead”. Honest to goodness the first thing that came to mind was the ariel shots shown after they found Jaycee Dugard 6 years ago. What she was forced to live in was nearly identical as what they are living in, only she was in someone’s suburban backyard. And the people who support the Naugler’s homestead amaze me. Because I’ll bet most of them were appalled by the living conditions they found Jaycee Dugard living in.
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As someone raised on a “homestead” and homeschooled all the way through, I can only view this family’s living conditions as deplorable. I think what I despise the most is the lack of effort the family have put into improving their living standards. Because really, it isn’t that difficult to build a basic cabin if you do your research and have enough people on hand to put in the work. When I was eight I had built play houses for myself at least equal to the structure this family have been living in. In fact there is something very similar about it to my family’s chicken shed (which also had three closed walls and a fence surrounding the third, open end).
I had a few basic questions when I went through their facebook page:
1) What on earth would possess people to make a “wall” out of sticks? From pictures, it is obvious that they have things like screw drivers and saws. They could even have purchased extra tarp and nailed it along the fence for more wind protection.
2) What makes anyone think that it is okay to have so much grime throughout their living areas? There are pictures of dogs sleeping on top of piles of “clean” clothing in order to keep warm during winter. The floor of the “kitchen” is clearly unswept and no one seems to attempt basic sanitary precautions such as washing plates and knives. The blankets the children are using in bed don’t look that warm, all things considered. Winter must certainly have been miserable with poor light, cramped space and nowhere private to do things like get changed. Toilet trips must have been like hell. Some people have commented on facebook saying that Christmas lights show the family doing their best to add nice touches. But if you notice the Christmas lights seem to be their only source of electrical lighting and are not for decoration.
3) Why would a family be able to provide better for a business than for their own personal needs? The mother is able to make attractive products for pets – ribbons, bows and collars. She has clearly done her research and has all the tools necessary to put them together. They have also been trying to build a place to have a dog grooming business. Clearly they know what normal looks like. Why aren’t they able to put the same effort into taking care of themselves?
4) The mother states in a verbal interview with police (which has been recorded and is accessible elsewhere) that she doesn’t accept welfare payments and is not a “whore of the state.” That is obviously a great ideal but in contradiction they don’t seem to mind accepting donations from people who follow their blog. I believe they have received over $30,000 so far. Wouldn’t it be more ethical to accept government payments to better their lives and get themselves out of extreme poverty than becoming leaches of the homeschooling community?
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What they fail to understand is that once they have had $20,000 or more than 200 donations, the host company MUST issue a 1099-K. They WILL have to pay taxes on that income. Or they’ll just take off with it.
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If you read the comments she made, she actually said she was not interested in taking money that was taken from people forcibly (through taxes) and was being donated to them by no choice of the people sending the money.
The donations they are receiving are sent directly to them by people who are making willing donations for their family.
I get what she is saying
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I’m just learning of this situation – thanks for the informative post – but if they’re “off the grid”, why (and how) are they on Facebook? Seems like an obvious question…
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Mobile phone(s) with a data plan. They can charge it in the car, or at their place of business and probably use wi-fi hot spots. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if they used the library’s internet access.
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If someone wishes to see their buildings from the air, put the following coordinates into google maps. It’s appalling. After two years they should have INCREASED the land value with their activities (if they’re trying to obtain it by adverse possession) or at least not lowered the value (if they’re purchasing, renting or leasing it).
37.719624, -86.288304
37.718826, -86.288418
37.718928, -86.288859
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If you do go to any of the coordinates (google maps), compare and contrast the color and condition of their pond to those elsewhere. Thir pond is significantly paler in shade and that doesn’t bode well for its health.
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Thank you for this insight! I had an uneasy feeling about this family when I read the initial “article.” Then seeing the pictures….
As a homeschool parent, the pictures made my stomach turn. My chickens have a better home then these children.
My husband and I have had some hard times. But I refused to let us slip into squalor. When our cars broke down, and there was no money to fix them. We walked, biked, or bussed ourselves to work. As my Grandpa said, “A good work ethic is better then any degree.”
But I don’t think that is the case here and the children have had to pay for their parent’s laziness.
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Here’s the thing. I have a friend who works for cps. She has told me it takes A LOT to actually remove a child from a home. Unless as she told me “There are drugs on the table, a broken bone the kid says their parents did, no food, or a dead child the judges do not like to take peoples children from them”. I believe her. There are so many complaints all over the country when a kid ends up dead and cps didnt do anything. As she says “Damned if we do, damned if we dont”. Instead the goal is family reunification. I also know this because I am a trained Guardian ad litem.
I have a feeling that the mom and dad are not posting all the paperwork they got. CPS will ask to see the children, when you refuse and you have a filthy residence (and they did), and reports of violence (and they did when the neighbor said dad threatened them with a weapon IN FRONT of a child), they assume youre hiding something. They get a warrant and err on the side of caution. At which point the kids are taken & questioned. In this case because of how they were living I wont be shocked to learn some probably ended up in the ER being looked at in case they had any injuries, or maybe to see if they had old injuries that were never properly treated, had lice, or any other common thing kids get when they are not cared for. We have no idea what any of the kids might have said. These are kids after all. They think living this way is normal, and would have no problem describing a day in the life to people. At this point CPS would have a list of things the parents need to do to get the kids back. They would have provided this to them prior to the court date, or since they took them as an emergency the day of court. They would be given a court appointed lawyer too, so the whole cost of a lawyer thing is frankly BS.
Let me also point out their own recordings contradict the line they are feeding supporters. Her FAQ 13 & 14 contradict themselves. In any case I dont want to make this any longer then need be. This family is not that unique. It seems to me neither of them wanted to put much effort into actually parenting. Even when people mention little house and the waltons, both those family had common sense enough not to live among the animals they raised. These kids were lucky to have made it out alive. And I don’t see them being returned any time soon.
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To be honest, cps might have that goal (feel like I often see the opposite side of that in the news, but I am clearly no expert and have no kids of my own, just work with everyone else’s), but the judge isn’t always about that. I have a friend who signed her kids to her parents temporarily while she was in the hospital because they were willing so her husband could still work (they live on the same block), and when her parents decided they wanted to keep the kids, they hired a lawyer who contributed to the judge;s campaign and made sure the judge was rewarded for the judgment they wanted. There was no need for evidence, or wasting everyone’s time in court (I was there- and couldn’t believe things that were being said, and after being proven otherwise, the judge simply said she didn’t have time to hear more from the other side- the parent’s side- and that it was easier to go ahead and grant custody to the grandparents. ARE YOU KIDDING??????? And I saw the whole thing. You would never believe something like that actually happens until you are there and see it yourself!!!!!)
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Gary, thank you for your article. I am praying for the children! I grew up poor but in a million times better conditions than this. My parents also wanted all of their children to have as much education as possible and a better life then they provided. How can parents not want more for their children? I think knowing how to live off the grid is a fabulous thing – but I personally feel knowing about the world (both on and off the grid) is important. Thank you for sharing how you were raised!!! You are a true homesteader! I think that is awesome!! I hope you keep us updated on this situation – my heart breaks for these children. Again, thank you so much for your article!
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Gary (anon) has spent a great deal of ‘virtual’ time here. The Nauglers (true names) have also. Lee (real?) has given us a map to the site, showing several neighbors’ homes (farms?) near enough to be aware of the situation. Who has actually visited this “homestead”? Are they in fact “squatters” and manipulators of the highest order? The truth will always come out. The “gray areas” of their story seem rife with apparent distant observations mixed with “up close and personal” experiences on several weblogs by some with direct knowledge of on- and off- site history lessons. Questions of ownership, job experiences, prior homes & states, public relations (outreach)–by the parents, and others involving themselves (as we often do when WND and the UK Daily get in the cycle)–hopefully will be answered to the best and most reasonable effect for the individuals, separately and collectively. My inclination is to support their rights to privacy and ownership, unless they have compromised their character and forthrightness in defending these rights. We have not lived in their “boots”, only our own, however we may hope to make near comparisons of ours (as were mine) to theirs. Were it possible, I would visit to see actual conditions and talk to them and others (pro or con). ‘Judgment’ will NOT be made on these pages, but will come nonetheless from Another–Whomever you believe has Final Authority to render it. In Judging them, we also are Judged. Hopefully we will all survive and benefit from this…’So Help Us God’. Semper Fi.
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From everything I have read, their intentions were to use the money their uninformed followers have donated for Attorney fees. Then Nicole later said when asked that they would use it for what they need to continue their “improvements” on the homestead. In all honesty, they wouldn’t need an Attorney had she just pled guilty to resisting arrest. Likewise if he had pled guilty to menacing. As for getting the children back, the State gives parents numerous attempts at getting their act together. All they would have to do, unfortunately, is get a stable home. Keep it clean and free from danger and proper beds and food in the house. That is, unless they find extreme abuse. But I have seen even then, they are given multiple tries at getting their children back. I knew a couple who fostered children. They got two children, small children, who had been left at home for several days in a crib with no food, soiled, while the mother was out doing drugs. They were placed with my friend. They were given back to their mother 3 times because she went to counseling, did what she was supposed to do. It tore my friends up. Finally they got them again and were able to adopt. The children even many years later (adults) have severe problems. So the people that think it would be better to take the state money and build the Nauglers a house need to realize. They don’t want a house. They want to live like they do. If they use the money for Attorney fees, it is because they want to change law. They don’t believe they are doing anything wrong. And from the sounds of the recordings, she will probably attempt to file a suit against the County for as she said “criminal trespass”. Any Attorney that would take that case needs to go back to law school. So they could be built 20 homes and nothing would change. They apparently care more about their “beliefs” and “constitutional rights” than the welfare of their children or getting their children back. Because I seriously doubt if law books will ever be changed to include any new laws called Nauglers Law.
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Wait a minute….they are off-grid….but have a blog…..and a GoFundMe……
I’m pretty sure computers are not considered “off-grid” – even if they may be doing it vicariously.
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Mobile phone(s) with internet access. Wi-fi hot spots. Libraries internet connections. It can be done.
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Thank you for your very honest view on things. I’ve been torn between what to believe. I’m all for people wanting to go back to a simpler way (or off grid) life. Living on that much land and providing for yourself off a garden and animals you keep properly. But their living is simply homeless living. One thing I noticed in the pictures on the FB page were the lack of smiles in the children’s faces. If the kids were happy living there wouldn’t they be smiling in the pictures? It’s sad really. And I hope that they don’t get the children back until they can provide proper off-grid living accommodations for them. I’ll be interested to see where their story goes.
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The local news channel shows an aerial view of the property. It looks horrible from the air.
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What station was it? The one with Valerie Chinn?
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When I first saw articles about this I got upset. But then I went to the fb page and decided that what happened was right. I was raised in the system and had horrific things happen to me before the state took us for the final time when I was 5. I have to say that it saved us. Lord knows what the outcome would have been otherwise. Living off the grid is awesome to me but what they are doing is not living off the grid. More like hiding out. I cant believe people are actually donating money to these people. I had 7 bypass a couple of months ago and cant work. My sister in law ex actually set up page for me to try to get me some help till all paperwork for disability goes through. I have several bad health issues, over 10 heart attacks, coded once, and alot more. I didnt get but like 200 dollars and mine is honest and real. When I checked their fb page I was like no this is wrong so I am glad that you posted this. Its very good information. Thank you. Also you covered alot of the issues. But in that very small space with all in same room and this mother keeps getting pregnant what are these young children seeing. And with them having kids at home how much more are they seeing. I was also a general manager in restaurants for years. Food poisoning and other illnesses if food is not stored right on shelves at proper temp is for real and people can die. The story about someone going to trailer house and seeing how they were living is awlful and I dont understand with people seeing this that that had not already been turned in. I know its got to be hard on those children right now, I remember foster homes and what all that was like, but later they will understand it was better for them.
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apparently they have closed their gofundme account, but not before accumulating 45K in donations, . , http://www.saveourfamily.info/donate/
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